What I Should Have Said About Joe Kinder
And what the swift cancelation of one of America's most prolific rock climbers and route developers says about us.

Sep 6, 2021 | Essays & Opinion

Portraits of Joe Kinder, shot in the aftermath of his cancelation. Photos by Francois Lebeau

Earlier this year, Ethan Pringle took a whipper off the top of Empath, a new, hard sport climb in the Tahoe basin. He crashed through a massive tree branch and injured his leg, requiring a few weeks of convalescence before he could climb again. Though concerned that my friend was hurt, I also couldn’t help but notice the following irony:

If only the route developer of this hard, new sport climb in Tahoe had done the work of removing the surrounding shrubs and tree limbs to make sure climbers would be relatively safe when taking whips.

If only, indeed. Perhaps the collision of Ethan’s plummeting body with a six-inch tree branch could be called a bit of vindication for Joe Kinder, who, in 2013, removed a juniper at the base of his new, hard FA at a “secret crag” in the Tahoe basin in order to prevent precisely this kind of accident. Joe’s renegade gardening, however, resulted in one of climbing’s earliest cancelations—his reputation was smeared and he nearly lost his sponsorships.

To be charitable to Joe Kinder, he was just doing the dirty work that’s involved in establishing a first ascent, in which questionable tactics around route development must be navigated by a seasoned expert without the prying eyes of a naive public weighing in. To be charitable to the climbers who took offense at Joe’s act, the juniper was about 100 years old and it’s illegal to cut down trees without a permit. However, had Joe Kinder only acquired a $15 tree-cutting permit, his actions would have been legit. (Double irony: all of these trees have probably just burned to the ground in the latest fire.)

None of those details really matter, however, because this was never about a tree. It was about a kind of emerging online mob justice that is meant to piously punish people without due process. It was about a new kind of culture in which attention, praise, relevance, and status can be obtained by anyone who is willing to add kindling to the witch-burning pyre.

But this was 2013, when online mobs were inchoate, still too toothless to inflict much damage. This was also a time when redemption remained a possibility among the silent majority of people who are actually good, sane folks willing to forgive and move on.

As Joe Kinder would unfortunately learn, the temperature of the room would soon change.

Fast forward to 2018, when Joe Kinder was accused of online bullying on social media, and was promptly judged, sentenced, and excommunicated from the climbing community within a space of 48 hours.

With the benefit of time, I feel more confident in saying that I’m uncomfortable with how this episode shook out. Three years later, the social media pile-on still feels wrong. The speed with which his employers dropped him looks even worse. And most importantly, my own silence, my own reluctance to publicly speak up on behalf of a person who I consider to be a good friend and know to be a great person—a person who on balance has contributed positively to the climbing community— is the thing that still bugs me most.

Had I been braver, I could’ve had my friend’s back. I could’ve said what I know to be true, even if that would’ve amounted to nothing more than trying to catch a whipper with my bare hands. Owning up to this shortcoming, as a person and a friend, is me now trying to do better. I want to make it right, not because I think it will or even should change anything, but merely for my own sake, my own integrity.

So let me say what I should’ve said at the time. What Joe Kinder did was mean and inexcusable, but he isn’t a bully and he didn’t and doesn’t deserve the punishment he got.

Having weathered my own little internet dramas over the years, I know a few things about cancellations from my own “lived experience.” The first is that no one can actually prepare you for what it is like to be on the receiving end of one of these online dog piles. Nor can anyone who hasn’t been through one themselves ever truly understand just how psychologically damaging they are. The people who claim “caNCel cuLturE” is not real or dismiss it as a trope for right-wing trolls who merely want to be racist without consequences really don’t get it—and I mean that seriously.

The second thing no one can prepare you for is the fact your friends, colleagues, and allies won’t come to your rescue. You will feel abandoned by the people you thought were your homies, and you will be shocked by how few people in your circle have any courage. Is their silence understandable? Of course. You get it. Who wants to get involved in some stupid internet bullshit? But still … It feels like a profound betrayal. And all of the dozens if not hundreds of messages that you will receive from the good, quiet people, written in private to offer their silent support—I agree with you! and This is wrong! but I just can’t say anything and, Well, you understand!—somehow only makes it all worse.

I don’t want to re-litigate whether Joe’s post on his private Instagram account was as bad as some people seem to think it was—in part because much of the catastrophizing rhetoric that depicted Joe as some kind of misogynistic monster is self-evidently absurd. Yet as dumb as Joe’s post was, there is also no good defense of it. It was immature, stupid, and mean. It was a cheap, cruel, and unfunny joke to a private audience of around 50 people on social media.

I will say this: I was one of those 50 people, and when I saw the post, I actually didn’t even get it. The caption merely said, “Have fun in the Verdon, guys,” which was a reference I didn’t understand. No one was named. No one was tagged. Like any Instagram post, it was gone from my screen with a thumb flick, and I didn’t think about it again until it became a Thing.

I understand why it became a Thing, however. I thought Sasha Digiulian had every right to feel hurt, and told her so at the time. I still believe that. Her anger was justified. End of story. I also reminded her that she and Joe were once friends, and that he was even a fan of hers. He vouched for her biggest ascents in the Red when she was a kid, before she became the mega climbing superstar that she is. And to Sasha’s credit, she said she didn’t want him to lose his sponsors; she just wanted him to stop being cruel to her behind her back.

The way this clash played out in the public sphere was unfortunate, if not tragic. It didn’t have to go down the way it did. It got out of control because both Sasha Digiulian and Joe Kinder are public people, and their spat became the day’s entertainment in the Instagram Coliseum. The crowd wanted someone to die.

Social media is a really odd game in which we feel compelled to curate a romantic picture of our lives, which is perhaps a nice way of saying that we are incentivized to present a dishonest version of our own reality. It can be pretty and inspiring, but it can also be oddly self-dehumanizing. Some of the best advice I’ve ever received is to “mute” certain friends on social media. In person, you know them and love them, but their personas on Instagram can be … unbearable. It’s easy to forget that there’s a real person behind that account, a person that you even like a lot.

Since the tree incident, online mobs have become far more cynical, ruthless, and capable. People who otherwise spend all day posting about self-care routines and how balanced their lives are and how important it is to integrate moments of gratitude into their daily practices quickly reveal themselves to be the extremely competent witch-burning puritans that they are.

And burn witches they did. They went after Joe’s employers like a mob boss. “Nice business you have there. Be a shame if we boycotted it.” The response? Sponsors who had supported Joe Kinder over a 20-year career dropped him like a piece of choss off a route.

They went after Joe’s friends. They made outrageous claims that weren’t true and exaggerated the harm Joe had done, as if there was some kind of malign pattern of abuse. Media outlets left out details and nuance in their reports. Climbers like me, who agreed that Joe had been mean but didn’t need to lose his entire career over an Instagram post, kept our thoughts to ourselves. I was on a text chain with a dozen top pro climbers around the world who all felt that this had gotten out of control, and that Joe Kinder didn’t deserve this. But everyone also came to a sobering consensus: it would be unwise for anyone on this thread to say anything publicly on Joe’s behalf. So everyone just kept their mouths closed. No one liked it.

Again, all of this is over a stupid, albeit hurtful Instagram post on a private account that virtually no one even saw.

By now, the shrieking children on social media were in control. This was the beginning of a trend that continues to this day in online climbing culture. For a relative nobody, it must feel like a drug to discover that you have the ability to tell companies who they should and shouldn’t sponsor, and what they can and cannot say.

They were in charge of not just the companies, but also the athlete managers, the magazines, the editors, the writers, and even the random nobodies on the Internet. These people made it clear that they would be controlling how sponsor budgets are spent; what messages went out on Instagram; what kind of content editorial departments choose to run. They were in charge of policing the comments section across social media, keeping oppo files on the Bad people, and making sure that any problematic comments, any risqué jokes, even from accounts with no followers, would be screenshot and held up as “evidence” that climbing itself is an irredeemable sewer of bigotry, patriarchy, and hate.

To the degree that I am making a point beyond what I, personally, could have done differently, it would be uncharitable of me to not acknowledge the valence of progress and consciousness-raising that has occurred around some of these topics, which has certainly made climbing open to acknowledging problems and striving to be better. But we need not improve social norms through Pyrrhic victories that rely on destroying people’s lives and livelihoods, let alone hinge on convincing everyone to accept a series of unfalsifiable assertions, half-truths, or dogmas without questioning them critically lest they be cast out of our community as one of the irredeemable, toxic Bad people.

Is this the kind of culture you want for climbing? One where no one feels like they can speak honestly or ever make jokes? A culture where apologies don’t mean anything? A culture where we are incentivized to narc out people with Wrong Think, who don’t use the right words, all in the name of so-called “progress”—but actually because we feel as if this is our only ticket to status and relevance on social media? I don’t.

Letting the online mob run the show is no way to have a healthy culture, intelligent and critical discourse, and accepting community filled with diverse people and diverse ideas, some of which, yes, you will disagree with. Instead, I see a climbing world increasingly held captive to dishonest, bad-faith social media actors. I see editors letting unfalsifiable assertions and unfair critiques about the sport go unquestioned so long as they support trendy activist dogmas that can signal the right political message in headlines. I see companies releasing hostage statements to avert boycotts, and donating money to causes they didn’t know even existed the week before, just to make the comments section on their Instagram pages chill the fuck out. The only way to change this trend is if more people in positions of power are willing to think critically and act with integrity.

That begins with our own behavior—namely, how we talk to each other online. Whether we choose to build pyres, or log off and talk in person. And, yes, whether we are willing to stand up for our friends—even when they have fucked up. That’s all I’m trying to do here—to say what I should’ve said three years ago. I’m just one person. I’m not an influencer. I’m not significant. I don’t have a huge audience. And I’m technically “canceled,” too. But I’m slowly regaining the confidence to have a voice. I hope others find theirs.


An audio version of this article is available to subscribers. Please consider supporting Evening Sends with a subscription to access audio version of articles, discounts in our store, as well as more premium essays.

About The Author

Andrew Bisharat

Andrew Bisharat is a writer and climber based in western Colorado. He is the publisher of Evening Sends and the co-host of The RunOut podcast.

Comments

21 Comments

  1. Avatar

    Well spoken!

  2. Avatar

    Well said, it seems that nowadays everybody want to be in power but only through social media’s.

  3. Avatar

    Interesting read! I have always been torn about the facts between the two ‘incidents’. I know what I read on-line, but always assumed there was much more to it all, and what was Joe’s position? There had to be additional facts!
    I met him once, at a climbing comp, and he was so very enthusiastic and kind. He showed a true passion for climbing and instructing, as he held a mentoring session for a few of us. I recall I didn’t sign up properly, and asked him if I could still attend and he was very welcoming and helped me a lot with bouldering technique.
    None of that excuses misbehavior.
    This article provides some welcome insight, conversation, and thought.

    • Avatar

      As a nobody looking to gain status I declare you and Joe UN-canceled go forth and be prosperous

  4. Avatar

    Thanks for having the courage to write this Andrew. I personally feel like that whole fiasco had so much to do with unexplored body image issues in climbing culture…it’s sad how cancelling Joe precluded deeper understanding and inquiry into an issue that so many struggle with.

  5. Avatar

    Didn’t know about any of this & it’s really sad!
    People make dumb jokes, people make mistakes, but what happened to Joe is really awful!
    I hope sponsors come back & he can get his professional climbing career back 🙁

  6. Avatar

    Glad you wrote this Andrew. Thank you.

  7. Avatar

    You nibbled at the edges of what is a microcosm of societies current rules on discourse. Pick any topic, pick any community, pick any special interest and agendas will be settled with outrage, threats and insults. Accusations of some “ism” and being called an “ist” is the skunky neutron bomb for any argument. So abhorrent is the concept of getting splashed by the blood of your neighbor that speaking out is verboten. Eat me last attitude doesn’t prevent getting eventually eaten.

  8. Avatar

    I think this is further demonstration of the severe lack of grace and forgiveness on social media. I see it quite a bit on my own feed, unrelated to climbing. The fervor for punishing someone for past or present transgressions, despite any apology or penance, is fairly frightening. Ironically, I’ll see these same people post about their regard for Fidel Castro! People are going to make mistakes, I mean they’re people. Just because they happen to be more public-facing than myself, doesn’t mean we should hold them to a significantly higher standard. I think we should continue to look inward, like you’re suggesting, and ask ourselves why we like to see people fail so much? Is it an ego thing? Is it the fact that we built them up so much that the fall is spectacular? Look at Trump. We all want him to be this fire-breathing demon that would grab your private parts without permission. I’m willing to bet if anyone of us spent time with him one-on-one, he would be cordial and nice — probably even personable. That doesn’t negate the terrible things one is capable of, but we can simultaneously hold the cognitive dissonance of: this person can be a good person and do bad things. And if people are willing to admit their mistakes and repent to those they’ve hurt, what more can we expect? What more would we expect of ourselves? A little golden rule would go a long way on that inner exposition.

  9. Avatar

    Thanks for sharing your thoughts and misgivings about this sad episode.

  10. Avatar

    Andrew, joe deserved to be held accountable for being shitty. The consequences he suffered were largely psychological, which suck, but it also sucks when someone with a big platform publicly insults you. Joe also lost his sponsorship, which he is not entitled to. You yourself have commented on how sponsorship is less about talent than about the story you tell, and so LS and BD were justified in deciding that they no longer wanted to elevate Joe and his story. As for feeling like your friends don’t have your back, well: our friends are the people who should hold us accountable first. We care deeply about what our friends think of us and we take them seriously. This was an effective way to tell Joe Kinder that if he wants to be a public figure in climbing, he needs to be more of a positive role model.

    • Avatar

      Agreed!

  11. Avatar

    This one is a miss. While there is a lot to not like about how this went down, at its core Joe managed to tap into something that angered a lot of people – calling chicks fat. Maybe excusable if he’s a high school knucklehead? Less excusable if he’s a man in his 30s and a public face of a few brands. People, including his friends, didn’t speak up because they knew what he did was really shitty. People get fired for this kind of thing in actual jobs every day.

    That said, I generally agree with you about the piling-on of the outrage mobs, and I find it weird that companies take online social media griping so seriously, and empowering bottom feeders and nobodies.

  12. Avatar

    Social media isn’t a legal court, its the court of public opinion. It’s also a numbers game and Joe doesn’t do anything that makes him more uniquely valuable to a company than their long term PR. It’s tough but that’s life. He’ll live.

  13. Avatar

    Thank you, AB, for speaking up about this. The anonymous internet pile-on cancel culture is totally lame. Big Brother and Big Sister will rip your belly out and pour hot coals into the hole just to feel their power. I’ve watched friends go through it and the things these people do in the name of “justice” is shocking and pathetic. Posting demeaning photos or statements that hurt someone’s feelings is also lame. The answer, of course, is to drop your Instagram and Facebook — just don’t participate in social media (gasp!) … but who can do that?

  14. Avatar

    I think this undeniable male point of view misses the larger point, and the reason which the mob, rightly or not, took Joe down to make an example. Which is that female climbers get abused, criticized and harassed in all sorts of ways for their bodies in a way that exposes the condoned misogynism that endures, particularly online, within the climbing community. It happens all the time to any female climber with a relative amount of visibility. Joe was just a visible and easy target, and he got made an example for a sin which almost no one ever pays a price because they are usually nobodies. It wasn’t about him, it was about the act. But the mob is usually wrong, and always ruthless, so you nailed it on that.

    • Avatar

      @Jessica, I feel that starting a review about a male-written blog like this deserves some reflection: “I think this undeniable male point of view…” If you apply the same lens you use for social justice to what you just said, I think it will reveal something that you, yourself are missing or perhaps glossing over.

    • Avatar

      “Someone needed to pay for the transgressions of the many” is the root of all mob mentality in a single sentence, and you summed it up perfectly. You justify Joe’s burning at the stake as a necessary sacrifice to atone for the wrongs that women endure.

      You feel, understandably so, that transgressions against women go unpunished and unrecognized. This is a fact, and one that society is still grappling with to this day.

      But deciding that one person deserves to be crucified for this, to be made an example for all of the difference between right and wrong, is exactly the problem. This is exactly the same logic by which atrocities have been committed for eons, and it is no less impactful just because we are talking about a climber.

      Arbitrarily deciding that one specific individual is the scapegoat for all transgressions simply because they are the easy target of the day for the internet mob is wrong.

  15. Avatar

    As someone who has had an eating disorder and is also a climber, body related comments or slander should be unacceptable, no matter the context. Fully agree that he should not be “cancelled” because that will not help him learn, but I would encourage a deep dive into why he felt the need to negatively comment on someone else’s body, regardless of how he felt about the person.

  16. Avatar

    I want to live in a world where people make mistakes and learn from them.

    What Sasha and Carlo did on the Eiger could easily lead her into being ‘cancelled’ had the right mob been activated – maybe it’s not too late and we can cancel her, too?

    Or maybe yet we use some nuance, we stop trying to control people we see on our phones and we let people be people? Not everyone has good ideas, not everyone acts right and a lot of us, myself included, have made and will make mistakes.

    Trying to destroy someones career, livelihood, image just reeks of projected self hate.

    Years ago you had to destroy the delicate arch to get your sponsorships and livelihood taken away – now you can post a vague insult on instagram to a handful of friends and get the same treatment. Whack.

Send it!

 

 

... To your inbox 🤓

Stay in the super loop on climbing's best discourse

You have Successfully Subscribed!