It’s easier to ask for forgiveness than to get permission, as the old saying goes. And that might have been true had you been on a remote mountain with no easy way to contact the outside world. But Tom Livingstone and Matt Glenn were on Tengkangpoche, which sits in the cell shadow of Everest’s 4G network. And instead of shooting out a text message to ask if they could use Quentin Roberts and Jesse Huey’s gear and try their multi-year project, they chose to ask for forgiveness for what Tom himself admitted privately was “a bit of a dick move.”
Tom just announced on Instagram the news that he and Matt have climbed the first ascent of the north pillar of Tengkangpoche (21,283 feet), a beautiful rib of granite, snow, and ice on an overlooked mountain just a stone’s throw from Everest. This is a great achievement and a beautiful climb, but their tactics behind the scenes beg a question about style, ethics, and integrity.
Quentin Roberts, a Canadian, has been trying to climb Tengkangpoche for at least three years, first with Juho Knuuttila, from Finland, and lately, with Jesse Huey, from the U.S. Three years of figuring out the beta, the line, and the strategy to make it happen. In 2019, Quentin and Juho nearly climbed the whole thing. In 2021, Quentin and Jesse unlocked some key route-finding beta and tactics, but were never able to put this beta to use on a second go because of the weather.
This beta, as well as Jesse and Quentin’s food and gear—including ascenders, aiders, and pitons—were crucial to Tom and Matt’s ascent. Tom and Matt hadn’t brought ascenders, aiders, or pitons since Tom supposedly has something against aid climbing, but this climb demanded it. Had they not used Quentin and Jesse’s gear, food, and fuel, it’s safe to say they would not have done this ascent.
Here are excerpts from Tom’s message to Jesse and Quentin after doing the route:
Hey, this sounds weird to write but I’m really sorry – we just climbed Tengkangpoche north east pillar. …
We saw a lot of your food was out of date/going out of date, so on our second attempt we ate the bars, gels and a couple of the freeze dried meals. We also used two gas cylinders which looked really rusty, particularly around the screw threads, but seemed to work ok. When we realised just how much aid climbing the route involved, we also borrowed the two jumars, étriers and pegs.
We didn’t have loads of food or gas to start with, so although we knew it was a bit if a dick move we decided to use some of your stuff on our second attempt.
Your tent, poles, stove, bolt kit, bolts, rock shoes, sleeping mats and other stuff is all still where you left it hanging on the wall.
I’d be happy to replace the food and gas we used. I can also leave the jumars, pegs and étriers here in Thame or Kathmandu if you like?
I really appreciated all your beta. I know you could’ve said ‘find it out for yourself!’ or told us to piss off and climb our own mountains. (An old school British climber told us that about something in Patagonia once, but it really was a shit show).
We took seven days round trip (that pillar is a real monster!). We definitely benefited from your info but you could certainly improve on our style and time. I am so impressed by your effort with Juho, that was really nails.
We climbed a lot of it as aid or mixed. (On the first attempt conditions were pretty good for free climbing but I fucked it with my finger). We took the right-trending ramp system through the top headwall which worked out ok. It was tricky but alright. We also saw your high point – you were so close! We really felt for you guys.
Sorry again and thanks for all the beta. If you’re psyched to go climbing again some day when our paths cross, that’d be cool. Also let me know if you want any ideas of things to climb – I’d be happy to help!
On Instagram, however, Tom paints a different picture of events. He gives thanks to a few different folks, but curiously fails to mention the fact that they almost certainly wouldn’t have completed this route without using the gear and food left in place for a spring 2022 attempt by two climbers who they knew wanted to do the route first.
“The ethics of these things are so weird,” wrote Quentin in a text message. “Nobody owns the mountain but maybe we do have ownership over our process? … Guy is so slimy. Got a sword in my stomach but got to keep a straight face. I thought those ethics were a thing of the past. Wouldn’t have shared so much about the route if I truly thought someone was going to do that!”
Slimy is a good word here, but I would also add entitled. I don’t know much about the background of these two climbers, but I associate this kind of behavior with rich kids who’ve been given everything their whole lives. You get a sense from Tom’s message that he genuinely doesn’t think he did anything wrong.
The tricky thing about this story is parsing Jesse and Quentin’s legitimate grievances from the feelings of jealousy and resentment that they must understandably feel toward Tom and Matt’s success. This isn’t an easy thing to unyoke. Is it possible for them to be upset without looking petty and small?
The details, I think, make a difference. For instance, Tom allegedly asked Quentin about the route without disclosing that he also had a permit for it. There’s also the detail of just how much stuff was stashed at this strategic point on the mountain: fuel, gel, and at least 28 protein bars, for example—which, regardless of what Tom suggested, weren’t going to “go bad.” If you consider how much seven days worth of food, fuel, and climbing gear weighs, it’s the difference between climbing with 50-pound packs and 20-pound packs.
And in fact, that’s probably the difference between failure and success.
“The reality is that if they had told us they were psyched on this route, we would’ve invited them to come climb Tengkangpoche with us next spring and we could’ve all done it together,” says Jesse, who is currently in Zion, where he is giving back to the climbing community by mentoring a climber as part of Scarpa’s athlete mentorship initiative, which is an irony that, in a story about feeling entitled to what’s not yours, need not be spelled out.
“I’m upset and I do believe in standing up for your ethical beliefs. I’d not have ever done that to someone,” wrote Quentin. “There are more mountains, and unlike Tom, I have more ideas.”
Great article here, Andrew.
It will be interesting to see how this ascent is received as the details become more known by their peers and the community. The IG comments are kudos all around and no mention of the questionable tactics. I don’t advocate or enjoy seeing the dumpster fires that happen in the comments section, but I found it odd that there was not a single mention.
Or he deletes any comments that call him out…
No.. I just spoke too soon. The IG junkshow is now ongoing.
No.. I just spoke too soon. The Instagram junkshow is now ongoing.
For a veteran news writer you sure put on your surprised picachu face whenever you write some inflammatory, sensationalized piece and then everyone reacts like anyone who is awake in 2021 would expect.
Maybe what Tom did was marginally slimy…. But FFS man you’ve been around long enough to know that actions (like writing this article) have consequences. Maybe Tom didn’t want this kind of attention, but neither did Quentin I’m sure.
Pretty sure “Andrew wrote another super controversial article with little substance” is more of a meme than anything in the climbing community today.
Another great read Andrew.
I think one other ethical question that pops into my mind is “Why are we stashing food, gear, and other supplies on or at the start of climbs in the first place?”.
There’s no doubt that Tom and Matt’s actions were “slimy” at best, but I keep thinking back to some of the conversations you and Chris have had about similar tactics on El Cap not being sustainable as climbing grows (fixed lines, cached food on route, etc).
Ultimately, these are two completely different places and styles of climbing so it may be a bit unfair to draw parallels. However, in addition to the ethical leaps taken by Tom and Matt, the precondition for this chain of events playing out was the gear being stashed there in the first place.
Cheers,
Sean
Some thoughts
1) its 2021– seems ethically dubious to be stashing gear high on mountains. Quentin talks about “not owning the mountain but owning their own process”– fair enough, but when you start stashing gear up on the mountain seems like you are acting like you own the mountain, and your process starts to infringe on other people’s processes…
2) “” If you consider how much seven days worth of food, fuel, and climbing gear weighs, it’s the difference between climbing with 50-pound packs and 20-pound packs. And in fact, that’s probably the difference between failure and success”
You have to think of the counter-factual her– seems likely that Quentin and Matt would have provisioned for the route completely different if the other team hadn’t left their crap up there, and for all we know they would have succeeded anyways.
I agree that there is a legitimate critique or conversation to be had about the ethics of stashing gear in general, but that’s a completely different topic that need not cloud how we think about this situation. They left all of that stuff with the hope that they’d be able to return to it in a few days and try to send the route, but when the weather moved in, that stash ended up being something they would leave till their next attempt. In response to your counterfactual (I believe you meant to say ‘Tom’ and Matt, not Quentin), they didn’t even bring the right gear into the mountains and so, no, they wouldn’t have succeeded anyways. The fact that “the right gear” was just sitting on the mountain wasn’t an accident; it was the result of a guy who had spent 3 years trying to do this climb and knew what it entailed.
Hi Andrew, some of your claims have been directly refuted by Tom in an article on his website, including that “they didn’t even bring the right gear into the mountains”. As well as showing that you didn’t check with Tom or Matt before publishing this story, I think it behoves you to publish an update at least acknowledging the different version of events.
The greivance here basically comes down entirely to the fact that Tom and Matt got the FA. Consider what would have happened if this were a 50th ascent. Jesse and Quentin MIGHT have been a little annoyed that they hadn’t been asked in the first place, but as long as everything had been replaced, the gear was in good shape, and their next trip hadn’t been disrupted, it probably would have been no big deal. Instead, they lost an FA that they had been working on for years, and the fact that it was done on their equipment rubs salt in the wound and gives them a seemingly legitimate thing to be upset about.
Realistically, what would have happened if they had asked? Jesse and Quentin would have wanted to say no, and, if they had, they’d be the assholes who let their egos and desire for glory get in the way of the sport. What happened is more public, but I’m not really sure it’s worse.
It seems really lame on both fronts. On one hand leaving gear on a wall that’s “too pristine to bolt” sounds ridiculous and irresponsible. On the other hand, poaching a route without permission is seriously childish, before you get into stealing gear and food. Disappointed in both teams
<> Not so, the fact that they did the route that was attempted previously is not the issue here, and long may that be the case in the mountains. The issues are getting the beta from those who attempted the route without full disclosure and the use of the abandoned aid gear.
Andrew I generally appreciate your writing but I think it’s unfair to write this article without at least reaching out to TL and MG for comment.
In an article that concerns ethics, Kevin is spot on.
This.
I’m a little mystified at the repeated mention of stashed gear and any sort of disappointment there. It seems pretty easy to suggest that a team should haul heavy loads in the mountains or go fast and light on extremely committing climbs when you’re sitting at your keyboard.
Climbing’s always been full of multi-season projects with an established conduct within the community of letting those whose project it is stick at till abandoned or the baton passed. It’s also always been full of those who suck off that ‘community’ and poach routes.
What is new is the contemporary access to new route options. COVID or not, there’s no need to hijack routes and peoples gear when you can go forge your own project and not be a dick to anyone. The absence of vision here is as much the issue as the parochial poaching of someone else’s efforts. No one’s claiming ownership of a mountain here, they are claiming ignoring ethical behavior in a sport that has no other standards than that.
Jesse’s gear wasn’t garbage dumped on a mountain – till now. It was gear left in place to be picked up on again as part of his job as a working climber. Now that his work has been appropriated by someone else, let’s see who goes back to pick it up.
Climbers would do better to grow out of this stuff than find new ways to explain it away.
I’m sorry but bullshit. I hate social media and vehemently avoid posting, commenting etc., so sorry if this is a bit impassioned but this blog post made my blood boil. Leaving aside the actual climbing, what I find the most unfair about this is the aspersions cast upon Matt and Tom’s character – ‘Entitled rich boys’ etc. I can’t speak about Tom as I don’t really know him, but Matt is a very good friend and I’m sorry about the nauseatingly cliched platitudes but he is really one of the nicest, most genuine people I know. Far from being one of those entitled alpine wankers (of which there are many), he drives a bus and guides people hillwalking in Scotland in between doing some really hard climbs in torn jackets with battered gear and not making a damn fuss about it – not exactly the ‘I haven’t worked for 4 year and am living my best life, here it is all over youtube’ type. He’s the type of climber that will give something a go, not believe he’s entitled to the line or the summit by any means necessary. This instant debasement of character to try to further a point you’re making is what you’d expect of hyper-reactive American media such as CNN and Fox News, not seemingly influential American climbing journalists. If you really want to bring it there, they aren’t the group who thought nothing of leaving thousands of dollars of gear on a Himalayan face, knowing not having access to this gear wouldn’t affect their future climbing at all their sponsors would replace it.
What they did maybe deserves a slap on the wrist at the most (I think the ascent should be celebrated). The other team must have known they were going to try it due to the amount information Quentin gave Tom about the climb. Tom and Matt were completely prepared and did have their own aid gear which they used the first time up. When they bailed the first time due to Tom’s finger, I’d assume it would have been easy to leave their jumars, a few bars and gas at the first bivvy site where the other group’s gear was. Instead, they brought their gear down and used the other teams jumars, some food that were going out of date and gas cans that were nearly rusted useless. One could even make a (stretched) argument for them using the other group’s jumars, bars and gas the second time to get it off the mountain (where it’s trash) and return it to the original owners (though I know that is stretching it a bit). They didn’t use anything useful that they didn’t already have (tent, bolt kit (why was that there!) Etc.). They just didn’t have to carry jumars for the first day of climbing out of 7. If you rock up to the base of El Cap, realise you forgot your jumars but see a discarded pair just lying in a bush they will definitely get used, it doesn’t make the ascent invalid. While this is different, it’s hardly the climbing crime of the century and Mr. Bisharat should have received input from either Tom or Matt before defaming their character – Tom has just written a blog about it which really debunks a lot of what was assumed in this blog.
I know that this comment pretty much changes nothing, but someone needs to defend their character as it is being dragged under a bus by a hoard twitter would be proud of, pretty much set off by this blog. I’m not trying to speak Matt or Tom here, but I’d assume they saw a bloody class looking line up an insane mountain that the previous party to attempt it had already sprayed all over the internet, and decided to see how it would go if they tried it. The fact that it’s Matt’s first time climbing in the Himalayas and he pulled off a near piolet d’or worthy ascent is something that should be celebrated, not be dragged through the mud by the American climbing media.
Glad to see someone with their head screwed on. This article is just shit stiring for a reaction.
This is a nasty article that only serves to make you look bad. Take a step back from your sense of entitlement for a while and consider making a retraction and apology.
Leaving a bunch of trash in the mountains with plans, but no guarantees, to come back for it: Bullshit level 2/10. Many of us have done it and continue to do it – doesn’t make it right.
Using that gear without permission when it would have been relatively easy to ask: Bullshit level 8/10.
Defending your actions by claiming it is abandoned gear and is both a gift from the mountains and, more self-righteously, that you’re cleaning up the trash by using it: Bullshit level 9/10.
Only removing the “trash” you need (food, fuel, aid gear), but leaving the rest (tent, other stuff): Bullshit level: 10/10. This action virtually assures the cache has now become trash as it will remain there forever. Who in their right minds would travel halfway around the world, and to the top of the world, to retrieve it after what just occurred? Not only is the adventure and glory of the FA gone, but the whole thing is soured.
Arguing over “kilos” of expired (or nearly expired) energy bars and whether or not the route was deceitfully or brazenly snaked, then making a celebratory post on social media without so much as mentioning what happened, let alone thanking Quentin and Jessy who were essential to your success: Bullshit level off the charts.
Writing this article without, I assume, seeking comment from Tom first (an article that has the potential to set into motion a sponsorship-ending chain of events) all on the heels of defending Joe Kinder after the exact same sort of chain of events happened to him: Bullshit level trending. I understand wanting to defend my friends, but criticizing the power of the social media sheep and then wielding that same power – in a very similar context – seems incongruous. But to be clear: The article about the facts doesn’t change the facts, it just paints them a certain way. If Tom (and Joe) had acted with integrity, there would only be good things to say.
All in all I’d say the amount of bullshit in this situation is pretty much the textbook definition of a shit show! What a bummer for that beautiful mountain, for Quentin and Jesse, and, ultimately, for Tom who has to look himself in the mirror each day. Still, very entertaining and despite my criticism, thank you Andrew for not shying away from the tough subjects.
Mountaineering or no, I can tell you that neither of my middle-schoolers would have even thought about eating someone else’s food, or using equipment that wasn’t theirs.
Here’s the thing…if you know someone has put years of effort into a super difficult Himalayan line and has every intention of returning to complete their efforts (Jesse and Quintin were there within the last year!) …AND you claim to be their friend…why would you set your sights on the line they have dedicated so much time on?Stuff like this makes me not want to share information regarding unclimbed projects with people.
Example: I have a project in the Alaska Range that I have tried three times. No one had ever heard about it until I foolishly shared a picture. It had been the vision between myself and a deceased partner and I want to honor him by finishing our dreamed route. The last time I was up there, we made it 18 pitches up, almost to the end of the technical difficulties, when my partner broke his crampon and we were forced to go down. Our entire rack was left up there in the form of rappel anchors. In the interim, I’ve had a basecamp destroyed by an avalanche that partially buried us and almost killed us both, and I’ve flown to the route and sat out a storm for three weeks without even getting to try it.
A team of young climbers from Slovenia asked for information on the sub range where I climb and I wrote them a multi-page letter. In it, I gave them dozens of recommendations and ideas for new routes and asked them to please leave just this one route untouched. They agreed. The first thing they did when they flew into the range was try our route. They never even had the decency to tell us. I had to find out from their blog. Luckily, they didn’t get up the thing.
Actions like this expose greed, disrespect and a lack of individual vision. It makes me not want to share my beta with people and that is a shitty way to feel. Alpinism and climbing in general should be a community filled with respect and open sharing of knowledge. But, we should give others reasonable efforts to finish their exceedingly difficult objectives in far flung corners of the world without fear of someone else swiping their line after they post a photo on the internet. There are tons of objectives out there that don’t have any chance of stepping on others’ toes, why not try them? Respect people enough to give them the opportunity to fulfill their vision. Success earned from leeching off of someone else’s vision, shared knowledge and gear is something I find unfulfilling, especially when you fail to credit them.
It’s nothing new. Mugs Stump did it to Rob Newsom and the Back in Black crew on the North Buttress of Mount Hunter. A thousand other examples could be listed. It doesn’t make it right though and it goes against the very core of my ideals as an alpinist. I could give a shit about Jesse and Quintin leaving their cache up there. They certainly would have gone back to complete their visionary line. I’ve done the same in Alaska, Nepal and other places. Perhaps, if you’re not an alpinist, you don’t understand.
Tom and his partner may very well win the Piolet d’Or for this climb, but, regardless of who is right and who is wrong, I personally find his motives to be disqualifying. There is no doubt that Tom is a brilliant alpinist and a good person. I simply hope he will use this as a learning experience and find objectives in the future that don’t mire his success while stepping on the efforts of others who he claims to like and respect.
All of this assumes one thing, that we can own lines on mountains. Those mountains belong to the local people, both physically and spiritually, and for two North Americans to try and lay claim to it simply because they left a cache of gear on it is a bit ridiculous. Further more, if they had wanted it to remain a complete secret then they should never have sprayed it all over the internet in the first place, although how would their sponsors ever have known or been satisfied without the big details?
Tom and Matt could’ve done better by being more transparent and thanking Jesse and Quentin about it in their post and admitting the cache was the difference between success and failure. That would’ve at least meant J and Q would’ve felt a big part of the first ascent and maybe less sour.
This white, male, colonialist attitude thinking that we can own lines of snow, ice and rock going up bigger lumps of rock is outdated and quite frankly a very poor perspective to have of things.
The only thing that is slimy here is this writer’s one-sided, under-researched, highly sensationalized article, designed to get maximum page views. For a more rational, unbiased take on this “incident”, check out Colin Haley’s post on Facebook.
Congrats on the web traffic, Bisharat. This slimy journalism doesn’t deserve the attention it’s getting.
I don’t know why you would abandon gear on the other side of the planet and expect it to still be there the next year. Fine line between stashing and littering. What if you didn’t return? Unfortunate that it was taken advantage of by people who you gave beta, but seems like you relinquished that gear when it was abandoned
Hugely disrespectful partisan article just aiming to create controversy without all the info needed to comment. Shame on you ANDREW BISHARAT, wait to get all the facts and write impartial accounts not a version of events that suits you/your mates hidden agenda!
Que vous le vouliez ou non, que vous soyez d’accord ou non, l’alpinisme (et l’escalade également) sont des sports d’opportunistes !! Une fois que l’on sait ça …
“I don’t know much about the background of these two climbers, but…”
How long would it have taken you to find out before following up that sentence with some totally unsubstantiated assumptions? Five minutes?
Come on.
Damn, some folks got some opinions here. Um, I probably would only take something that wasn’t mine if it was water on a wall route, old enough to be abandoned but not so old I would be sick from drinking it. And I don’t really see a problem with stashing gear personally, I stash a rope at the crag sometimes. I don’t litter and pack out my poop, so I’m feeling alright on the leave no trace ethics. Bisharat, this subject certainly could be explored more in a TAPS edition or runout, you and Chris could go into the nuance, maybe once this has cooled off a little…